The biggest pitfalls of liberal feminism

Pretty Funny
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Re: The biggest pitfalls of liberal feminism

Post by Pretty Funny » 04 Nov 2018 15:06

Some issues that I have noticed:

1. Liberal feminists claim they want "equality for everyone". Of course that is a nice thought, but why should feminism be an equality movement? Why can't it concentrate on women's issues alone? To me it seems that liberal feminism is illogical in this respect.

2. Another thing that I have a problem with is tied to what I just said. Liberal feminists say "A true feminist will defend men too". They even go as far as saying "If you hate men, you can't be a feminist." Why not? I know that feminism is about wanting to destroy the somewhat abstract "patriarchy", and even radical feminism isn't about individuals. However, if a feminist truly HATES men on a personal level, does that make them less of a feminist? In my opinion, no. A person is allowed to feel hatred towards anyone or anything. What really matters is how you treat other people - you don't have to say every single thing that comes to your mind.

I actually believe that the reason why many women come to radical feminism is because they have some trauma or issue that involves men. That is true in my case too - I definitely have a personal hatred towards some individual men and male culture in general. However, the more I read about radical feminism, the more at ease I feel with myself and I can feel that "personal hatred" diminish. It is hard to explain but that's how it is.

3. I have a huge issue with the claim "Men can be feminists too". Sure there are nice men out there, but they can never understand the female point of view. Actually recently I saw a video on YouTube called "all feminist panel" where feminists (obviously liberal) were answering questions. They were talking about the things I already mentioned ("equality for everyone" and "no, we don't hate men") and one member of the panel was a dude. I couldn't help thinking that the dude was needed there to make the panel somehow more "credible". Because that's how it is: it's usually a man who says the final word and says how things are and how things should be done.

The video annoyed me so much that I couldn't watch all of it.



I found radical and gender critical feminism only recently so I hope I have understood it correctly.

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get0ffthetumblrz
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Re: The biggest pitfalls of liberal feminism

Post by get0ffthetumblrz » 04 Nov 2018 17:00

Pretty Funny wrote:
04 Nov 2018 15:06

3. I have a huge issue with the claim "Men can be feminists too". Sure there are nice men out there, but they can never understand the female point of view. Actually recently I saw a video on YouTube called "all feminist panel" where feminists (obviously liberal) were answering questions. They were talking about the things I already mentioned ("equality for everyone" and "no, we don't hate men") and one member of the panel was a dude. I couldn't help thinking that the dude was needed there to make the panel somehow more "credible". Because that's how it is: it's usually a man who says the final word and says how things are and how things should be done.
I've found that most men that call themselves feminists are either using it as a way to get laid or care more about their ego and being one of the "good ones" than the issues. They care more about showing off to women how "feminist" they are; how about go talk to other men? Gloating about how much of a "good man" you are to women doesn't help us.

Liberal feminists try so hard to placate men, but don't realize that oppressors are always going to use reversals such as "feminists hate men" no matter how much they suck up to men.

Pretty Funny
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Re: The biggest pitfalls of liberal feminism

Post by Pretty Funny » 04 Nov 2018 17:13

get0ffthetumblrz wrote:
04 Nov 2018 17:00
Pretty Funny wrote:
04 Nov 2018 15:06

3. I have a huge issue with the claim "Men can be feminists too". Sure there are nice men out there, but they can never understand the female point of view. Actually recently I saw a video on YouTube called "all feminist panel" where feminists (obviously liberal) were answering questions. They were talking about the things I already mentioned ("equality for everyone" and "no, we don't hate men") and one member of the panel was a dude. I couldn't help thinking that the dude was needed there to make the panel somehow more "credible". Because that's how it is: it's usually a man who says the final word and says how things are and how things should be done.
I've found that most men that call themselves feminists are either using it as a way to get laid or care more about their ego and being one of the "good ones" than the issues. They care more about showing off to women how "feminist" they are; how about go talk to other men? Gloating about how much of a "good man" you are to women doesn't help us.

Liberal feminists try so hard to placate men, but don't realize that oppressors are always going to use reversals such as "feminists hate men" no matter how much they suck up to men.
You are right. If men really cared about women's issues, then they should go talk to other men about how to treat women in a respectful manner. But of course most men will never do that.

Pretty Funny
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Re: The biggest pitfalls of liberal feminism

Post by Pretty Funny » 05 Nov 2018 09:33

4. Another pitfall of liberal feminism is jumping on the trans bandwagon. That includes all the non-binary bullshit.

nuxi
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Re: The biggest pitfalls of liberal feminism

Post by nuxi » 07 Nov 2018 17:36

Pretty Funny wrote:
05 Nov 2018 09:33
4. Another pitfall of liberal feminism is jumping on the trans bandwagon. That includes all the non-binary bullshit.
Exactly! All this trans and nonbinary bs hurts women. So how can liberal feminism support an ideology which hurts women but still calling themselves feminists? :icon_rolleyes:

Pretty Funny
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Re: The biggest pitfalls of liberal feminism

Post by Pretty Funny » 08 Nov 2018 07:05

5. Body positivity. I'm not sure who invented it, but today's liberal pop-feminism definitely embraces it. Don't get me wrong - I know the idea is well-meaning and I am not against it per se.

But its manifestations. Like the Dove ad campaign that says "everyone can be beautiful" or whatever their slogan is. They have that slogan but the people in the ad are totally normal looking, even conventionally attractive. Their only "flaw" may be that some of them are on the plump side.

Many of us know that not everyone is beautiful. Doesn't matter how we see us, most likely someone (usually a man) will tear us down and invalidate all our achievements because we are "ugly". I have experienced that several times in my life. They say that confidence makes you look better in other people's eyes and I suppose that is true, and I guess that's what Dove is trying to say with their campaign. But the real truth is that looks DO matter a lot. It affects how people see you, how they treat you and how they talk to you. I assume the Dove campaign appeals to normal, conventionally attractive women who feel "ugly" because they ate too much on holidays or get the occasional pimple. The Dove campaign doesn't show people with severe acne or burn scars. Neither does it show people with disabilities or deformities.

Stop lying, Dove. It's just a goddamn shower gel that you're advertising. It may make a person clean and nice smelling but it doesn't make them "beautiful". Besides, I want to ask - WHY should people be beautiful? Why should we try to assure ourselves that we are beautiful if the rest of the world (especially men) calls us ugly and treats us like shit? Why should we be beautiful or even feel beautiful? I think one of Dove slogans was "choose beautiful". I feel like asking - why should we choose beautiful?

How about concentrating on other things and not giving a flying fuck about "beautiful"?

Pretty Funny
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Re: The biggest pitfalls of liberal feminism

Post by Pretty Funny » 08 Nov 2018 07:32

6. Trying to solve every single problem in the world (I suppose that is what they call intersectional feminism) and saying that feminism is synonymous with "equality for everyone". Ok, equality is a beautiful idea and I have nothing against it, but why should feminism try to solve everyone's issues? Why should it be all-inclusive?

How about making feminism a women's movement again?

nuxi
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Re: The biggest pitfalls of liberal feminism

Post by nuxi » 08 Nov 2018 14:24

Pretty Funny wrote:
08 Nov 2018 07:32
Ok, equality is a beautiful idea and I have nothing against it, but why should feminism try to solve everyone's issues? Why should it be all-inclusive?

How about making feminism a women's movement again?
I think it's about female socialization. Females are socialized to be nice,not to hurt anyone and to feel responsible for anyone and anything.

Yes,feminism should be a women's movement.

Pretty Funny
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Re: The biggest pitfalls of liberal feminism

Post by Pretty Funny » 08 Nov 2018 15:34

nuxi wrote:
08 Nov 2018 14:24
Pretty Funny wrote:
08 Nov 2018 07:32
Ok, equality is a beautiful idea and I have nothing against it, but why should feminism try to solve everyone's issues? Why should it be all-inclusive?

How about making feminism a women's movement again?
I think it's about female socialization. Females are socialized to be nice,not to hurt anyone and to feel responsible for anyone and anything.

Yes,feminism should be a women's movement.
You are right. When someone mentions feminism and women's rights, someone (usually a man) says something along the lines of "How about men's rights? How about homeless men? WHY DON'T YOU HAVE EMPATHY FOR HOMELESS MEN?!?"

P.S. Looks like I was repeating myself. #1 and #6 in my list were basically the same.

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Irina
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Re: The biggest pitfalls of liberal feminism

Post by Irina » 10 Nov 2018 18:10

Pretty Funny wrote:
08 Nov 2018 07:05
5. Body positivity. I'm not sure who invented it, but today's liberal pop-feminism definitely embraces it. Don't get me wrong - I know the idea is well-meaning and I am not against it per se.


How about concentrating on other things and not giving a flying fuck about "beautiful"?
Great point. Body positivity a. k. a. everyone is beautiful. I have totally forgotten this ugly concept exists (pun intended). Like all libfem theories it sounds humane and looks good on paper, but it is painfully illogical.
1) If everyone is beautiful why do we need the concept of beauty at all? It takes two to tango - beauty and ugliness. This concept works properly only in dichotomy.
2) beauty is for the most part man-made. Good for you, libfem, to have picked up on that. The thing is reforming man-made stuff is like sugarcoating a poop. It needs to go.
3) women are not objects, and calling them pretty is on the same level of thinking as calling them ugly. The picture on your wall is pretty, not a woman.

Pretty Funny
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Re: The biggest pitfalls of liberal feminism

Post by Pretty Funny » 10 Nov 2018 20:30

Irina wrote:
10 Nov 2018 18:10
Pretty Funny wrote:
08 Nov 2018 07:05
5. Body positivity. I'm not sure who invented it, but today's liberal pop-feminism definitely embraces it. Don't get me wrong - I know the idea is well-meaning and I am not against it per se.


How about concentrating on other things and not giving a flying fuck about "beautiful"?
Great point. Body positivity a. k. a. everyone is beautiful. I have totally forgotten this ugly concept exists (pun intended). Like all libfem theories it sounds humane and looks good on paper, but it is painfully illogical.
1) If everyone is beautiful why do we need the concept of beauty at all? It takes two to tango - beauty and ugliness. This concept works properly only in dichotomy.
2) beauty is for the most part man-made. Good for you, libfem, to have picked up on that. The thing is reforming man-made stuff is like sugarcoating a poop. It needs to go.
3) women are not objects, and calling them pretty is on the same level of thinking as calling them ugly. The picture on your wall is pretty, not a woman.
To say "Everyone is beautiful" isn't even particularly revolutionary or original. In fact, not at all. Besides that slogan only proves how superficial the world really is: if you are not beautiful, then you have to imagine that you are - because beauty is essential!

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