Rant on women who are vicious towards other women

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witch
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Rant on women who are vicious towards other women

Post by witch » 07 Nov 2018 06:11

Why do I have a sense that women who are more dependant on men, addicted to sex, attention and resources, are always more vicious towards other women?
Is this some kind of self-esteem issue? Pick me, choose me, look at me. As if men gave a fuck and didn't dispose them or consider them lesser anyway.
Also, why is being considered a "cool girl" always mean a girl who resonates with boyish things? Such as having a sense of humour.

Just some early morning rant.

Pretty Funny
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Re: Rant on women who are vicious towards other women

Post by Pretty Funny » 07 Nov 2018 11:15

witch wrote:
07 Nov 2018 06:11
Why do I have a sense that women who are more dependant on men, addicted to sex, attention and resources, are always more vicious towards other women?
Is this some kind of self-esteem issue? Pick me, choose me, look at me. As if men gave a fuck and didn't dispose them or consider them lesser anyway.
Also, why is being considered a "cool girl" always mean a girl who resonates with boyish things? Such as having a sense of humour.

Just some early morning rant.
Are you referring to a particular person or experience, witch? Can you give an example?

I haven't really met that kind of girls since high school. It is probably a self-esteem issue as you said, and also an internalized misogyny issue.

Personally, I think that painting women as "back-stabbing bitches who are dependent on men" is questionable. It is a harmful stereotype and also kind of anti-feminist. I don't meet such adult women on a daily basis (actually most women I meet seem to be kind of down-to-earth and nice) so that's why I'm curious to hear about your experiences.

If that type of women really exist, I suppose it could be called toxic femininity? Basing your self-worth on your looks and on the attention you get from men, seeing other women as competitors and sabotaging them, always siding with men against other women, criticizing and attacking other women while envying them at the same time, etc. How common are such behaviors to women? Teenagers definitely do that (and most of them grow out of it, I hope), but how about adult women?

Dawn
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Re: Rant on women who are vicious towards other women

Post by Dawn » 23 Nov 2018 02:53

I've seen it happen online, but not in the real world it mirrors. Online, however, it is vicious. Of course, I've seen it come from women who've drunk the Koolaid and insist transwomen are women (*yawn*), though I have seen it come from the GC side, as well, which is frankly embarrassing and not helping the cause at all.

But yes, it does happen.

VestalVirgin
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Re: Rant on women who are vicious towards other women

Post by VestalVirgin » 03 Dec 2018 20:15

Are women who are more dependent on men more vicious towards other women? It would make sense.

The women who have been vicious towards me online were all genderists, presumably defending TiMs, if not explicitly (I was attacked in spaces where, by chance, there were almost only women), then implicitly.

Mean girls at school tended to be more interested in boys than the ones who didn't bully me, but I can't really remember that much. Got away from nasty women in real life as fast as I could after school.

I don't think it has much to do with sex. Not even ressources, for most. I think they mostly crave male approval. Female, heterosexual trans-allies aren't likely to want sex with TiMs/"transwomen", after all.

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Peach
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Re: Rant on women who are vicious towards other women

Post by Peach » 04 Dec 2018 05:16

People in oppressed groups sometimes lash out to others in that group, it happens.
Personally I can't stand stereotypical women who do everything to please men to earn their cookies. Like smiling, laughing at their sexist jokes, wearing makeup..
But on the other hand I know it's their way to handle patriarchy.
I've a colleague who knows how to play our boss and get cookies. She lashes out to the other women in meetings just to get his approval. She's never mean to men. Never.

nuxi
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Re: Rant on women who are vicious towards other women

Post by nuxi » 04 Dec 2018 07:12

Maybe it's also jealousy? Stereotypical women who are mean to non-stereotypical women maybe are jealous because the non-stereotypical women don't need make-up and/or men to be happy. And maybe that irritates/annoys the stereotypical women who aren't strong enough to break free from the expectations of men/society.

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Peach
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Re: Rant on women who are vicious towards other women

Post by Peach » 04 Dec 2018 09:15

nuxi wrote:
04 Dec 2018 07:12
Maybe it's also jealousy? Stereotypical women who are mean to non-stereotypical women maybe are jealous because the non-stereotypical women don't need make-up and/or men to be happy. And maybe that irritates/annoys the stereotypical women who aren't strong enough to break free from the expectations of men/society.
That might be the case.

Lesbian
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Re: Rant on women who are vicious towards other women

Post by Lesbian » 03 Feb 2019 15:06

[quote=Peach post_id=4648 time=1543900593 user_id=2...
I've a colleague who knows how to play our boss and get cookies. She lashes out to the other women in meetings just to get his approval. She's never mean to men. Never.
[/quote]

Yes, one’s relationship with her boss is everything. A friend once told me that in capitalism, one’s labor is a product. To do well at work, one must find a boss that wants to buy what you are selling.

Competence? Emotional Labor? Honesty? Fun to socialize with over beers? Mainstream Appearence? Work Ethic? Affiliation (attended same schools, attends same church)?...

For some bosses, each of these factors count or don’t.

Sometimes you can determine some of these while interviewing for a new job. I remember noting with approval during an interview that my boss-to-be was wearing flat shoes without any heels. Sure enough, she has never asked me to wear heels to work, and I do not.

Sibyl
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Re: Rant on women who are vicious towards other women

Post by Sibyl » 04 Feb 2019 17:02

What you are describing, both having to please men via fuckability and various services, open season on women, no matter what means of survival they've chosen and your reaction to it are the effects of misogyny, internalized misogyny and denial. Those of us who have managed to at least see through some of the fog have to be patient and kind, not doormat kind, but display a compassionate understanding that presents and argues the facts of women's experiences, including the women doing the self-objectification thing as a means of survival. Because that is what it is, a means of survival, even if the women practicing this kind of survival are all but blind to it. If we are to truly liberate ourselves from misogynist oppression we are going to need as many women on board as is humanly possible. Breaking through the fog of denial that all women have to the truth is going to take every ounce of love and intelligence that we can muster - and that is only the first baby step that might make our liberation possible. Patience, intelligence, strength and kindness, first with ourselves and then with other women is the only first step that I see. We need each other and we've been trained to distrust each other and that there is no safety for us in the camaraderie of women. As difficult as it is, breaking down these walls is the first step.
Most women I know feel like outlaws. - Marilyn French

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